Grover Norquist is the head of the Americans for Tax Reform (ATR), a Washington-based organization fighting for lower and more transparent taxes in the United States. The ATR has also been one of the leading organizations fighting for the rights of online poker players in Kentucky, where Governor Steve Beshear has seized 141 internet gambling domains. The ATR is also working for proper internet protection at a national level.
Poker News Daily: Tell us what your reaction was to the ruling last week by Judge Thomas Wingate in Kentucky, not dismissing Governor Beshear’s seizure order.
Norquist: As a friend of freedom and as someone who thinks that the internet is important and works best when the government doesn’t mess with it, I was outraged. It was an assault on property rights, an assault on the internet, and an assault on online poker.
PND: Explain what the ATR is and how it was formed.
Norquist: ATR was set up at the request of the Reagan White House in 1985. The goal was to help enact the Tax Reform Act of 1986. I had been head of the National Taxpayers Union in the past and worked with the Reagan White House on a number of tax issues, so they asked me if I’d run it and I was delighted to do so. We created the no tax increase pledge, where we ask all candidates for office to sign a pledge never to raise taxes and we hold them to it. We just draw a line in the sand and say don’t raise taxes.
I also served on the Commission for Electronic Commerce, which was put together by politicians who were hoping that the Commission would find a way to tax sales on the internet. I worked very hard to make sure that the Commission’s answer was not to allow taxation of the internet or taxing sales on the internet. Through ATR and other organizations I’ve worked for, we’ve worked to keep the internet tax-free and regulation-free.
PND: What do you foresee as the future of the Kentucky legal action? Do you see any appeals coming?
Norquist: I assume it will be appealed because it’s a lousy act, violates people’s property rights, interferes with an industry, and interferes with individuals leading their lives as they see fit. At ATR, we’re going to work with groups like the Bluegrass Institute, which is the free market think tank in Kentucky, to make sure that people understand how ridiculous the Governor’s position is. If you don’t want to play poker online, then don’t play poker online, but don’t mess up the internet for everybody else.
PND: On moral grounds, an argument that a lot of lawmakers have used, is there any difference between online poker and something like state lotteries?
Norquist: That’s why the whole thing is really hypocritical. Kentucky is a state that makes a lot of money off horse racing. States have lotteries. Evidently, some people’s idea of morality is that they don’t mind something unless they’re cut it on it. If they’re getting some money off of it, it’s moral. If people are enjoying something, but the state isn’t making any money off of it, then they’re outraged. I think the argument is ridiculous and that people should leave other people alone. If you don’t want to be involved in online gaming, then don’t be involved in online gaming. The Governor stole people’s property, the internet gambling sites. That’s written up in the Ten Commandments. Poker playing is not mentioned.
PND: What would happen if domain names were actually forfeited in Kentucky?
Norquist: I think it would be very bad for online poker and things could get worse because you see more confiscations. It’s not just online poker that stands to be threatened by people’s property rights being violated. Everyone with a house has to wonder. If they’re going to be confiscating the property of online sites for gaming, then what about people who express political ideas that the State finds problematic? If you make money on the internet, they’ll want to tax it.
PND: Talk about what you think the future of the internet will be in America.
Norquist: I think the future of online poker will be bright because we will defeat this and other efforts to regulate the internet. Once people are used to freedom, they don’t want to give it up. People understand that the internet is source of liberty and human contact. They used to say that we were going alone and not joining any groups anymore. We’re playing poker with friends on the internet rather than at someone’s house. It’s the same thing as Facebook and LinkedIn and various communities created on the internet.
People shouldn’t be censored by the government. People shouldn’t be limited by the government. This assault on online poker is an assault on the internet and the freedom it brings. It’s not just about poker. I believe that the online poker people will win in Kentucky and that the Governor will have to back off, but it’s not going to be immediately easy and there will be setbacks as we fight to keep the internet and internet poker free from interference.
